tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post8504266032138763606..comments2024-03-28T06:46:47.044-07:00Comments on Tom Van Winkle's Return to Gaming: Coins in D&D and Found AdvancementTom Van Winklehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00498476328377801884noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-17481448205915525872023-09-01T07:20:19.020-07:002023-09-01T07:20:19.020-07:00I know this is a rather late comment, but I think ...I know this is a rather late comment, but I think having XP for Gold with a system like this would be excellent. Suddenly, your ability to convert what you've taken into actual cash is ALSO relevant to your leveling, and that has all kind of interesting knock-on effects. The successful adventurer is not just the one who finds treasure, but the one who actually turns that treasure into a fortune. <br /><br />I think it only works thematically in a more domain-building-focused game, but it definitely would work well there IMO. Simulated Knavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220636533241212000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-83499815414521130112022-07-01T09:13:32.170-07:002022-07-01T09:13:32.170-07:00I appreciate your interest. I find it fun sometime...I appreciate your interest. I find it fun sometimes to have the players deliberate over who gets the benefit that comes with an object or site. At the same time, I do like to have sites, objects, events, and even monster deaths that confer a new trait or advantage, power-up or boost, to all PCs present (and hirelings!). Let us know how it goes!Tom Van Winklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00498476328377801884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-38420798067756647422022-07-01T07:29:21.173-07:002022-07-01T07:29:21.173-07:00Yes it makes perfect sense. I'm starting a new...Yes it makes perfect sense. I'm starting a new campaign soon and so this idea came just in time. I'll definitively use this and adapt it to the lore of my fictional world. The reason I asked so many questions is the indecision I'm facing with regards to "who gets the shiny thing"? I'm hesitating between everyone gets something at random based on the type of shrine, everyone gets the same thing (which would kind of work in my case since it's West Marches style), or just one person gets something. I prefer the first choice, but it makes a little bit less sense than the two others, so I'm unsure. Anyway thanks for your help! David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00429498583022992655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-76909300925660227022022-07-01T06:30:39.552-07:002022-07-01T06:30:39.552-07:00I tend to use it as the latter. That is, there is ...I tend to use it as the latter. That is, there is a feature of the found site or object, which is *part of the fiction* (and, often, PCs have sought it because of the fiction), and exposure to the object or site, or use of the object or site, confers a specific new trait or "power-up." This is in a game that doesn't use levels, but it can easily be used for games with levels. What differentiates this method from very specific "milestone" advancement is that the PCs themselves know that there are benefits in the thing they are seeking or using or fulfilling. It isn't just that the players alone (and not the PCs) know that the PCs get an abstract advancement. I hope I explained that well enough.Tom Van Winklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00498476328377801884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-84008854002067595362022-06-30T07:36:19.683-07:002022-06-30T07:36:19.683-07:00Oh I see! So it's both a meta-related advancem...Oh I see! So it's both a meta-related advancement (you were there, so here is some 'XP') and an in-game advancement (you are the one that drank the coolaid, you get this particular magic power)? Thanks for answering back! Appreciated. David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00429498583022992655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-2193183012213595722022-06-30T07:04:13.825-07:002022-06-30T07:04:13.825-07:00The availability of "found advancement" ...The availability of "found advancement" in my games depends on the story around each site. There might be an elixir of magic power that gives more magic potential to the one who drinks it, but everybody who joins together to restore the artifact to the shrine gains a point of Luck. It's not so different from planning the availability of treasure in older D&D games, where designers of adventures are actually planning how many XP are there to be had (even if they claim otherwise).Tom Van Winklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00498476328377801884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-9102721402313726462022-06-29T18:27:31.383-07:002022-06-29T18:27:31.383-07:00This is an awesome idea. I've been wanting to ...This is an awesome idea. I've been wanting to do something like this for a while. One question since you are using them in your campaign: are all shrine one use only? Because if you have multiple player, does everyone gain the same bonus at the same time? Maybe you randomize the bonus or something? Thanks! David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/00429498583022992655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-65247932985067925352022-01-20T15:52:22.168-08:002022-01-20T15:52:22.168-08:00Yes, abandoning Loot=EXP makes my method "sup...Yes, abandoning Loot=EXP makes my method "super easy" and leaves a lot of room for PCs to decide not to haul out the 'hard to haul' stuff and other choice based play, do they decide what to keep by Value/Weight, Utility items, just Money? Do they even bother with Speculative goods? They know a Wizard's Staff is 40$ (minimum) on the open market... but it might have other enchantments which raise it's Value... or it might have Banes and Curses... and it's not compact treasure, someone has to carry it in hand (unless that have a wagon/cart/horses/etc), so what if it has a slow onset Curse?<br /><br />Those were all questions I thought were more interesting than "Do we have enough bags for all these Coins?"<br /><br />It also means I'm not having to worry as much about Loot or Overabundance of Money driving play. I award EXP based on what they accomplish, so I can have whole missions end with little to no loot and keep my PCs "hungry" for the next mission without the Players feeling like their Characters can't "advance".<br /><br />And I know at least one person† doing things "my way" (or very similarly) who is also doing Sold Loot=EXP, it just means his PCs make all those choices and then have to find buyers for the Speculative stuff, and often try to make non-Speculative Goods/Gear into Speculative by adding a 'story' to it...<br /><br />PCs: "It's the right chain glove from the giant we slew in defense of Swamps Edge!"<br /><br />Merchant: "Aye, and bloody useless as I don't know any one who'd want it."<br /><br />PCs: "But you're selling not just the glove, but the story..."<br /><br />Merchant: "Next!"<br /><br /><br /><br />.† Peter Dell'Orto's Felltower Megadungeon campaign...<br />https://dungeonfantastic.blogspot.com/evileeyorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08296632217198088455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-22892063953642836722022-01-20T06:25:55.933-08:002022-01-20T06:25:55.933-08:00I like the distinction of goods, gear, speculative...I like the distinction of goods, gear, speculatives, and money. The advantage of coins, though, is that they are compact and are directly used. My players definitely haul off gear when they find it, and put it up for sale.<br /><br />Your system makes more sense when you don't have a rule XP = GP (value). I wonder if anybody who follows that rule would want your system. Players would want to know the market value of gear every time they make a choice to haul it off, and that becomes an issue of conveying information to the players--another complication in play.Tom Van Winklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00498476328377801884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-31556878427276332242022-01-19T18:59:47.295-08:002022-01-19T18:59:47.295-08:00I've never had 'coins' as loot, as the...I've never had 'coins' as loot, as they are presented here, I've always had Goods, Gear, Speculatives, or Money, whether they be Realized or Unrealized.<br /><br />Goods are trade goods like bags of salt or spices, bolts of cloth, pelts or hides, metal ingot, even occasionally hard wood cured for use. These items have a "fixed" value in society, possibly even directly to adventurers who are also craftsmen, and while this value might fluctuate with the market, it is usually set.<br /><br />Gear is Goods that have a direct use by PCs, bows, arrows, rope, armor, flint and steel, potions, scrolls, etc.<br /><br />Speculatives are Goods or Gear that don't tend to have a "fixed" value, art, gems, antiquities, old coinage, weird magic items, etc.<br /><br />Money is just that, coins or fungible assets that directly translate to 'fixed' currency in the markets the PCs have access to. Money can be used directly without needing to have it exchanged into a usable form. This means it isn't "ancient no longer in circulation coinage or paper", that would be a speculative, no this is coinage or paper or crypto or Nuyen that is immediately usable by the PCs in their markets.<br /><br />Realized loot, is loot that is immediately usable or valuable in it's current form (even if another form might be more valuable, like gold ingot is valuable where gold jewelry might be more valuable).<br /><br />Unrealized loot is not usable in it's current form, gold ore in the cavern wall, wolf pelts on unskinned dead wolves, encrypted cryptocurrency on a thumb drive.<br /><br />I started doing this when I was preparing to run a game waaaay back in the before times and I was reading the adventure in advance (as one does) and I asked myself "Why do these savage evil creatures have coins on their person as treasure?" They were described as wearing pelts and hides and being basically stone aged savage creatures... "What civilized market are they using these coins at?" And then later in that same adventure, "Wait, these skeletons are described as having good swords and armor, why isn't that sellable? Why do they have Treasure Type 'Nil'?" So despite being young and not really that experienced (I was an amateur numismatic) I startted developing my own "Treasure Tables"... and then I stopped running D&D entirely and Treasure Tables became a concept I dropped along with Classes and Levels.<br /><br />So it's more proper to say after I stopped running D&D I started doing what I've outlined above, as I never really got 'my Treasure Tables' fully developed and I don't use those things anymore.evileeyorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08296632217198088455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-40363048051686497842021-11-13T04:28:29.460-08:002021-11-13T04:28:29.460-08:00I see a distinction between narrative advancement ...I see a distinction between narrative advancement and found advancement. The former is any kind of narrative character change. The latter is literally discovering level-ups, stat bonuses, etc., in objects and places in the fiction. (That's also not the same thing as milestone advancement, which is metagame mechanics, usually.)Tom Van Winklehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00498476328377801884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2246037824413568064.post-67152345946049484892021-11-12T18:52:14.613-08:002021-11-12T18:52:14.613-08:00"Found advancement" is such a good term...."Found advancement" is such a good term. I always feel like "diegetic advancement" while completely correct and important, just doesn't... sound right?Spwackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07247063374457045751noreply@blogger.com